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is there a God?


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#1 Helions

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 01:18 PM

i'm not sure what religion everyone here practices, and i surely don't mean to offend anyone with anything i say...

with that aside, do you think there is a God?

personally, i believe there is a God. most opponents of religion would say that the origins of our existence could be figured out with science...although having faith that there is a God seems silly, i find it sillier to think that we all originated from some cells back in the day when the earth was created.............

anyone want to have a nice argument? =)
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#2 AverageJoe

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 03:59 PM

O, this is my favorite part about this forum!

Todays apes, in millions of years will evolve into beings similar to us.
beings adapt to their circumstances over time, they werent just put their like your story book tells you. scientists have already established that we were descended from apes.
while the bible has some admirable qualities to live your life by, the whole premise that the earth was created in seven days is nonsense.
what is even more nonsensical is that people like you still choose to believe in this when there is overwhelming proof to the contrary, but you probably think that is a big conspiracy theory..........

P.S. Who wrote the bible............................O, yea, not god. A bunch of greedy politicians put it together around 400 A.D.


physical evidence (fossils, etc.) isnt proved beyond reasonable doubt??? and the bible is??? You have absolutely NO proof god exists, yet refuse to believe the actual proof we have standing right of front of us??? how does your brain work? illogically, im guessing.

churches in england ARE at an all time low, thankfully. i was watching a program about this not so long ago, and it appears that the main demographic who visit the are over 60, accounting for about 90% of churchgoers, and churches are lucky to have a gathering of 20 people on a sunday, which means america will catch up with us soon and churches (at least christian) will be finished.

people (except you) arent dumb enough to blindly accept something that actualy cant be possible without any proof. if you could prove that god exists, then trust me, id be the biggest believer going. but you cant. its like trying to tell black is white. its not true.

p.s. darth vader wasnt real either (if you believe in one story you gotta believe em all)

Joe
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#3 Helions

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 10 2007, 03:59 PM) View Post
O, this is my favorite part about this forum!

Todays apes, in millions of years will evolve into beings similar to us.
beings adapt to their circumstances over time, they werent just put their like your story book tells you. scientists have already established that we were descended from apes.
while the bible has some admirable qualities to live your life by, the whole premise that the earth was created in seven days is nonsense.
what is even more nonsensical is that people like you still choose to believe in this when there is overwhelming proof to the contrary, but you probably think that is a big conspiracy theory..........

P.S. Who wrote the bible............................O, yea, not god. A bunch of greedy politicians put it together around 400 A.D.


physical evidence (fossils, etc.) isnt proved beyond reasonable doubt??? and the bible is??? You have absolutely NO proof god exists, yet refuse to believe the actual proof we have standing right of front of us??? how does your brain work? illogically, im guessing.

churches in england ARE at an all time low, thankfully. i was watching a program about this not so long ago, and it appears that the main demographic who visit the are over 60, accounting for about 90% of churchgoers, and churches are lucky to have a gathering of 20 people on a sunday, which means america will catch up with us soon and churches (at least christian) will be finished.

people (except you) arent dumb enough to blindly accept something that actualy cant be possible without any proof. if you could prove that god exists, then trust me, id be the biggest believer going. but you cant. its like trying to tell black is white. its not true.

p.s. darth vader wasnt real either (if you believe in one story you gotta believe em all)

Joe



first of all, i think you have great points, but there is a proper way to argue...trying to make someone feel lower with your arguments isn't usually the best way...i'm definitely not stupid, i can guarantee that...i don't think you're stupid either...

second of all, maybe there was a misunderstanding when i said God with a capital G...what i meant was a god, as in a creator...


i majored in biology so i know more than i want to know about the theory of evolution...yea, i can see that maybe later in the future, apes will be just like us...and yea i can see that there is a lot of evidence that we might have evolved from apes...

but where did those apes come from?

i know a lot about Christianity since I lived my childhood as a Christian...i also know a lot about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam...

let's have an educated discussion without having to badmouth the other person, ok?
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#4 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:39 PM

This is really a loaded question. Define "God". I belive there is a "higher power" and to me that would be God. So, going by that and on my side, yes i believe there is a God.

#5 Helions

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 05:13 AM

QUOTE(Richard Kuehne- KDH Web Designs @ Mar 10 2007, 08:39 PM) View Post
This is really a loaded question. Define "God". I belive there is a "higher power" and to me that would be God. So, going by that and on my side, yes i believe there is a God.


yes, this is definitely a loaded question, but a loaded question is good for discussions...

i define God as the creator..it's hard to believe that there isn't a creator...you can search in every science textbook for our origins and the origins of our universe and it always comes down to the Big Bang...basically, we all originated from a single point that exploded into everything that is today. but where did that single point come from? although scientists are trying to figure it out, i highly doubt that they will...so science, in that matter, is quite illogical to me...it is more logical for me to think that we are here so there must have been a creator...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

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#6 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 05:16 AM

well i look at it as this, you cant look at life and not say that there isn't a god or hiogher power

#7 AverageJoe

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 10:31 PM

Sorry, I just love debates with Christians, I sometimes get carried away.

QUOTE
and yea i can see that there is a lot of evidence that we might have evolved from apes...

but where did those apes come from?

Well not from god, the bible says that god made Adam and Eve out of dust, not evolution.
Now some questions I have for you.
Do you believe that god said let there be light and the sun appeared?
Why does God allow events like Katrina to happen?
If god was so perfect, why did he create everything to be imperfect.
If god controls everything, why would he send his only son down to Earth for the sins that he made us do?
If god is all powerful why doesn't he make it to where we can"t sin?


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#8 Helions

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 01:33 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 11 2007, 10:31 PM) View Post
Sorry, I just love debates with Christians, I sometimes get carried away.

QUOTE
and yea i can see that there is a lot of evidence that we might have evolved from apes...

but where did those apes come from?

Well not from god, the bible says that god made Adam and Eve out of dust, not evolution.
Now some questions I have for you.
Do you believe that god said let there be light and the sun appeared?
Why does God allow events like Katrina to happen?
If god was so perfect, why did he create everything to be imperfect.
If god controls everything, why would he send his only son down to Earth for the sins that he made us do?
If god is all powerful why doesn't he make it to where we can"t sin?



so if the apes didnt come from a god, then where did they come from?

anyways, those are good questions you've asked...but you've misunderstood what i was asking...i wasn't talking about God as in the Christian God...i was talking about a god...which is why i corrected myself in one of the replies...and the title of the topic is, "is there a God?", not "is there God?"...i know it was my fault at first, but i did correct myself...

basically, i'm not talking about Christianity in particular...i'm talking about religion in general...

i mentioned before that i grew up as a Christian...but i asked myself those questions also and have decided that maybe Christianity wasn't the way to go since i was so confused...that's why i started looking into other religions. i believe there is a god, a creator of heaven and earth, but i find it hard to believe in one single religion...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#9 AverageJoe

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 04:18 AM

O.K. I didn't know what you meant by that at first. I also used to be very confused until I had learned that believing in science is also a faith.
Well do you know your what your specific beliefs are now? It would be very helpful to know what I'm debating about: cult religions, major religions, or a combination of the two.
I must add though that I don't consider Christianity a bad thing, it helps many people do the right thing.

P.S. I formed my opinions by reading debates such as these so to all the noobs out there, you should know that neither side of any case of this matter can be proven 100% wrong or right(EX:God doesn't exist can't be proven with evidence. Evolution can be made very likely due to evidence, but there is no way to go back in time and prove it) so it really is all about what you believe in, and when you make up your mind make sure that you stick up for what you believe in.


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#10 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 06:35 AM

If it's true what the bible says about god using the rib of a man to make weomen and that men actually have 1 less rib than a woman.....


I WANT MY [bleeped!] RIB BACK tongue.gif

#11 Ashoat

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 07:25 AM

I happen to be a Christian, and an educated one at that.

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 11 2007, 03:31 PM) View Post
Well not from god, the bible says that god made Adam and Eve out of dust, not evolution.
Comeon, you are taking the Bible too literally. You've been listening to too many Catholics tongue.gif
Dust is a metaphor - it doesn't mean God literally took dust and made Adam and Eve, but that he took what is best described as gas - organic particle gasses - and fashioned living humans from it. The Bible can't go into scientific descriptions of the exact specifics of the Creation.

QUOTE
Do you believe that god said let there be light and the sun appeared?
Once again, these things are metaphores. God "said" "let there be light" and the Sun "appeared." The Bible makes absolutely no mention of how the Sun "appeared," how long it took, etc. The Sun, IMO, appeared through a condensation of simple particles through gravitational attraction and then gathered enough excess heat energy to initiate a fusion reaction, which triggered an outburst of light energy, hence the appearance of light. And all this happened because God wanted it to.

QUOTE
Why does God allow events like Katrina to happen?
God allows events like Katrina to happen for different reasons. Perhaps it was a test. Perhaps it was punishment. Perhaps it is atonement. IMO, it's best not to try to interpret the will of God.

QUOTE
If god was so perfect, why did he create everything to be imperfect.
Who's to say what's perfect? God is perfect is His way, not in our human perceptions. What is perfect to you? Do you even know the definition of it? What would you expect of a perfect God?

QUOTE
If god controls everything, why would he send his only son down to Earth for the sins that he made us do?
He did not make us do sins. We chose to do them ourselves.

QUOTE
If god is all powerful why doesn't he make it to where we can"t sin?
Because He doesn't want us to. He wants to give us free will. Free will is one of the bases of humanity.

#12 myncknm

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23)
how does your brain work? illogically, im guessing.
You'd be hard-pressed to find any brains that didn't work illogically.
QUOTE
Todays apes, in millions of years will evolve into beings similar to us.
Not necessarily.
QUOTE
scientists have already established that we were descended from apes.
Minor correction: ape-like creatures.


QUOTE(krazyboi)
i majored in biology so i know more than i want to know about the theory of evolution...
O_o A biology major.
QUOTE
but where did those apes come from?
Current theory about the origin of life involves phospholipids dispersed through water spontaneously condensing into something similar to a plasma membrane. This is probable because phospholipids are partially nonpolar and hydrophobic, leading them to be pushed aside when water forms its hydrogen bonds with itself. When they get pushed aside, they tend to cluster together because they're not repulsed from themselves, and then they form a spherical bilayer.

When this happens, they might capture inside them a collection of organic molecules, formed from inorganic molecules reacting with each other in the chemically reducing atmosphere. Some of these organic molecules might include primitive RNA-like strands that'd started to replicate themselves primitively and unreliably through hydrogen bonding. Then some of these strands might have started forming polypeptide-like polymers, again just by hydrogen bonding. Some of these polypeptide-like molecules might've just by random chance turned out in a shape that catalyzes hydrogen bonding and polymer replication. Then these polymers would end up replicating themselves a lot faster and outcompeting its neighbors, which means the beginning of Darwinian evolution, with the result of what we see now.

#13 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:34 AM

djbob, i love the break down of how you explained and answered those questions. I was in high school and during my sophmore year, i took earth science. We were taught of the big bang theory. Well, I told my youth minister about this and he said to tell her that you (I) belived in the big bang theory. God said it and "bang" it happened. Well, we had a test the next day, and on the test it had a fill in the blank section where it asked to explain the big bang theory. I wrote down that God said it and Bang It happened. I was suspended from school for 2 weeks for that. Now, I am also a christian ( i know i am gay but that doesnt matter) and I have a slight fear of death. Not too sure if i should start a new thread on this or not, i'll let you decide that, but what can you say about these fears. Is it normal, is it a "sign" from God that I am not on the right path in my life. I have never had these fears before like i am now.

#14 Helions

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 11:06 AM

QUOTE(myncknm @ Mar 12 2007, 08:47 AM) View Post
QUOTE(krazyboi)
i majored in biology so i know more than i want to know about the theory of evolution...
O_o A biology major.
QUOTE
but where did those apes come from?
Current theory about the origin of life involves phospholipids dispersed through water spontaneously condensing into something similar to a plasma membrane. This is probable because phospholipids are partially nonpolar and hydrophobic, leading them to be pushed aside when water forms its hydrogen bonds with itself. When they get pushed aside, they tend to cluster together because they're not repulsed from themselves, and then they form a spherical bilayer.

When this happens, they might capture inside them a collection of organic molecules, formed from inorganic molecules reacting with each other in the chemically reducing atmosphere. Some of these organic molecules might include primitive RNA-like strands that'd started to replicate themselves primitively and unreliably through hydrogen bonding. Then some of these strands might have started forming polypeptide-like polymers, again just by hydrogen bonding. Some of these polypeptide-like molecules might've just by random chance turned out in a shape that catalyzes hydrogen bonding and polymer replication. Then these polymers would end up replicating themselves a lot faster and outcompeting its neighbors, which means the beginning of Darwinian evolution, with the result of what we see now.


i was waiting for someone to give this explanation =)

so, where did these phospholipids come from?
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#15 Helions

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE(Richard Kuehne- KDH Web Designs @ Mar 12 2007, 10:34 AM) View Post
djbob, i love the break down of how you explained and answered those questions. I was in high school and during my sophmore year, i took earth science. We were taught of the big bang theory. Well, I told my youth minister about this and he said to tell her that you (I) belived in the big bang theory. God said it and "bang" it happened. Well, we had a test the next day, and on the test it had a fill in the blank section where it asked to explain the big bang theory. I wrote down that God said it and Bang It happened. I was suspended from school for 2 weeks for that. Now, I am also a christian ( i know i am gay but that doesnt matter) and I have a slight fear of death. Not too sure if i should start a new thread on this or not, i'll let you decide that, but what can you say about these fears. Is it normal, is it a "sign" from God that I am not on the right path in my life. I have never had these fears before like i am now.


i think it's normal for any human being to fear death..but as a Christian, you shouldn't be afraid...your eternal life after death will be infinitely better in Heaven...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock




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