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is there a God?


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#31 Helions

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 11:57 PM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 17 2007, 11:49 PM) View Post
Good points!


Water rains on the rock, the rock erodes. No one eroded the rock.

A bacteria splits. no one made the new bacteria.

The tides rise and fall. No one makes this happen.

So no [bleeped!] people make things, but some things(like a mountain, or the universe) were not made by anyone.

Now stop beating around the bush and reply to my last post.

Also TELL ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN



the reason i said "wasn't there a higher being who/that created it" is because a higher being can be someone or something...

water rains on the rock, the rock erodes...no one eroded the rock, but something(the rain) did...
a bacteria splits, no one made the new bacteria..but the process of reproduction did create the new bacteria...
the tides rise and fall. no one makes this happen..but the moon makes it happen...

what i was trying to prove was that everything must have a cause...not that an actual person had to create everything...

now you should stop beating around the bush and tell me exactly why you can't or don't want to understand this simple concept...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#32 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:22 AM

QUOTE
not that an actual person had to create everything

Wow, your understanding now, not a person but a process(big bang) could have very well of caused it. Good job. tongue.gif

QUOTE
water rains on the rock, the rock erodes but something(the rain) did...

A plethora of matter repulse each other, creating the big bang. Thanks you pretty much summed it up for me.

QUOTE
now you should stop beating around the bush and tell me exactly why you can't or don't want to understand this simple concept

I'm beating around the bush, you haven't shown me one piece of evidence, just that you have a gut instinct.







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#33 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:27 AM

you're still not understanding...from the way you argue, i can tell that maybe you just aren't intelligent enough to understand...

even processes, such as the Big Bang, must have a cause...would it be easier for your mind to understand if i called the higher power a "supreme cause?" it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way...

my arguments on everything having a cause and all the examples i've posted should have been enough evidence...you failed to show me any relevant evidence on your side...the only evidence you showed that had any relevance was the rain eroding water, and the bacteria splitting, and the tides on earth...and even at that, they weren't even properly supporting your argument...

why don't you take your own signature and put it to use? put some thought and grammar into your posts...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#34 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:33 AM

QUOTE
you're still not understanding...from the way you argue, i can tell that maybe you just aren't intelligent enough to understand...


Right back at ya buddy.

QUOTE
even processes, such as the Big Bang, must have a cause...would it be easier for your mind to understand if i called the higher power a "supreme cause?" it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way...

My "supreme power" is physics. What caused the big bang is is the repulsion of atoms, think of it like a very big supernova. "it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way" tongue.gif



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#35 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:44 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 18 2007, 12:33 AM) View Post
My "supreme power" is physics. What caused the big bang is is the repulsion of atoms, think of it like a very big supernova. "it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way" tongue.gif


physics can be thought of as a design or a mechanism for the way things work...so who or what was the designer? you're still thinking inside the box, when i've shown you, countless times, what you can see outside the box...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#36 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 12:54 AM

QUOTE
physics can be thought of as a design or a mechanism for the way things work


Physics is the way things work.

QUOTE
you're still thinking inside the box, when I've shown you, countless times, what you can see outside the box...



Maybe there are other universes are out of our universe.
I could always think like you, and in that case,

We are a drop of water that a big giant dude made so that he could just so he could watch us(I would of just gotten a T.V) to see what we do.

So lets think outside of the box here. what is outside of the box? Just a god, or a place with unlimited candy? O, and I'm sure Santa lives in the north pole to. tongue.gif
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#37 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:04 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 18 2007, 12:54 AM) View Post
QUOTE
physics can be thought of as a design or a mechanism for the way things work


Physics is the way things work.

QUOTE
you're still thinking inside the box, when I've shown you, countless times, what you can see outside the box...



Maybe there are other universes are out of our universe.
I could always think like you, and in that case,

We are a drop of water that a big giant dude made so that he could just so he could watch us(I would of just gotten a T.V) to see what we do.

So lets think outside of the box here. what is outside of the box? Just a god, or a place with unlimited candy? O, and I'm sure Santa lives in the north pole to. tongue.gif



yea debating is fun, but the way you are going about it is making me respect you less and less with every post you write...

i'm going to stop replying to anything you write that makes no sense or just isn't relevant...maybe that'll stop you...

"physics is the way things work..." okay, let's take this slowly so you can understand perfectly...dont answer anything but this question that i'm about to ask you..and answer is concisely, without all the irrelevant mumbo jumbo that you add onto every post you write...

things work because they are designed to work that way, right? just yes or no...nothing else...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#38 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:13 AM

QUOTE
'm going to stop replying to anything you write that makes no sense or just isn't relevant...maybe that'll stop you...

What evidence have you provided me with?

QUOTE
"physics is the way things work..."

If that didn't have quotes around it, then it would be the most intelligent thing you have said because it's right.

QUOTE
dont answer anything but this question that i'm about to ask you

So what do you want me to answer about?

QUOTE
without all the irrelevant mumbo jumbo that you add onto every post you write...


That mumbo jumbo is called evidence, which you still have yet to provide.

QUOTE
things work because they are designed to work that way, right? just yes or no...nothing else...

No
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#39 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:14 AM

answer this...does something that happens have a cause? yes or no...nothing else
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- kid rock

#40 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:19 AM

No

Now answer this, what if a insane person kills someone for for no reason, does it have a cause? yes or no?
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#41 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:26 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 18 2007, 01:19 AM) View Post
No

Now answer this, what if a insane person kills someone for for no reason, does it have a cause? yes or no?


cause and effect is something you learn early in life...take a step back and think before you post...

a person kills someone because he has a reason...if a person kills someone without reason, then we can assume the person is insane...what was the cause of the insane person killing someone? his insanity...

do you understand that?

if you can't, then i'm just wasting my time debating with someone who has a misunderstanding of how the world proceeds...in that case, i'll just stop responding to your posts in this topic and wait for someone who can actually carry on intelligently...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#42 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:30 AM

Obviously you are 100% correct, but don't ask me to just give me yes or no answers if you are not willing to answer them yourself. tongue.gif HAHA

QUOTE
answer this...does something that happens have a cause?

For the most part yes but in physics we have found that some things do tend to happen at random.
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#43 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:41 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 18 2007, 01:30 AM) View Post
Obviously you are 100% correct, but don't ask me to just give me yes or no answers if you are not willing to answer them yourself. tongue.gif HAHA

QUOTE
answer this...does something that happens have a cause?

For the most part yes but in physics we have found that some things do tend to happen at random.


you didn't answer me with just a simple yes or no, so i didn't either...you tried to disprove me with a question...

anyways, even if something happens at random, there is always a cause...things happen for a reason...for example, you can't tell exactly how a smoke particle will move in the air...it moves randomly for the most part...but just because someone can't figure out why it moves randomly doesn't mean that something isn't causing it to move randomly..

so do we agree now that everything that happens has a cause? i severely doubt that you'd disagree now...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock

#44 AverageJoe

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:52 AM

Yes a law of physics causes it to happen. Such as a ball falls to the Earth this is because the law of gravity causes it to happen.

Laws are like your superior being, as we find out we find out how the universe works then we make it a law. We know the ball will not fall up because of the law.
Now when you respond please respond with some evidence that supports your theory, and no something that just discredits mine, then I will be impressed.

P.S. check out my website awsomejoe23.heliohost.org/cms
Do you have one? I hope so. laugh.gif
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#45 Helions

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 02:24 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 18 2007, 01:52 AM) View Post
Yes a law of physics causes it to happen. Such as a ball falls to the Earth this is because the law of gravity causes it to happen.

Laws are like your superior being, as we find out we find out how the universe works then we make it a law. We know the ball will not fall up because of the law.
Now when you respond please respond with some evidence that supports your theory, and no something that just discredits mine, then I will be impressed.

P.S. check out my website awsomejoe23.heliohost.org/cms
Do you have one? I hope so. laugh.gif


i'm not here to try and impress you...and i don't discredit your evidence, i discredit things you say that make no sense...i don't want you to try and impress me either, although i know you're trying very hard to do so...

you're right that the laws of physics are causes for the way things works...but you're wrong when you say that laws are like a superior being...the laws of physics are sets of rules that the world goes by...it's not hard to see that these laws must have been designed by someone or something to work the way they do...

i could put you in a room with nothing but a bowl and a button on the wall...let's say you had no idea who put you there or why you're there...obviously, you're going to press the button on the wall sooner or later...and when you do, the bowl will fill up with blood...you'll think to yourself, "oh, so when i press this button, the dish will fill with blood.." you can do it as many times as you want, and you'll always get the same results...
if i put someone else in the room with you...you'll tell them, "hey, if you press this button, the bowl will fill with blood..."
the other guy will ask, "why does it fill with blood when you press the button?"
you will say, "i don't know, but it works that way...you can press the button and you will see that the bowl fills with blood."

you won't be able to answer why it happens that way, but it's because i set it up that way...i designed it that way...



now aside from that...when i say supreme being, higher power, higher being, god, etc...i have a feeling that you're picturing in your mind, some person doing magic tricks or something...this isn't what i'm trying to show you...when i say that there is a higher power, i mean that there is a supreme cause...

a supreme cause...think about it...something/someone/anything that caused everything that we know to happen...you can't say that the laws of physics caused everything to happen because there must have been a supreme cause for the laws of physics...you can call this supreme cause anything you want...generally, people call this supreme cause "god," but since this is confusing for you, i'll continue to use the phrase "supreme cause."

if you want to continue debating and take this to a higher level, then you really are going to have to think about this before posting again...you will have to understand cause and effect...it's no fun if you're still stuck on this concept when i'm trying to take you to higher level...
...you get what you put in, and people get what they deserve...

- kid rock




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