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#1 AverageJoe

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 03:16 PM

Light has baffled many scientists for years. It travels in space, is the fastest thing ever, has infinite mass, and yet is a form of energy! We have proven that when you get close to the speed of light that time around you slows down. You could go the close to the speed of light for a few years and return to Earth and a thousand years had past. Do you ever think we will be able to travel the speed of light? If we can, what do you think we will discover?
Please explain your answer by putting some fact behind it.
Thanks,

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#2 Helions

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 05:26 PM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 10 2007, 03:16 PM) View Post
It.....has infinite mass


can you expand on this? i don't think i've ever heard of light having infinite mass...
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#3 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:37 PM

I believe that one day our people will be able to travel at the speed of light. How and when I am not too sure. I would love to see something like star trek with star ships and stuff like that.

#4 Ashoat

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 04:59 AM

According to the laws of physics light-speed travel is impossible, as at that speed we would disappear.

#5 Helions

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 05:00 AM

QUOTE(djbob @ Mar 11 2007, 04:59 AM) View Post
According to the laws of physics light-speed travel is impossible, as at that speed we would disappear.


this has everything to do with light having no mass at all...
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#6 AverageJoe

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 10:40 PM

Light as you know is a combination of matter and energy, and as you also may know when they reach the speed of light their mass becomes tremendous. The reason why they say that we can't travel the speed of light is that when you reach the speed of light, your mass becomes infinite. Well the problem with our mass being infinite is that it takes infinite amount of energy to move infinite mass, and there is not infinite energy in the universe. So therefore we could not obtain the speed of light with a thrust powered ship of some sort, we would have to be formed into energy and then we could travel that fast.
Unfortunately if we could actually form ourselves into energy then we would have to figure out how to undo that process so that we are the some as we were at the starting point.
Joe
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#7 Helions

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 11 2007, 10:40 PM) View Post
Light as you know is a combination of matter and energy, and as you also may know when they reach the speed of light their mass becomes tremendous. The reason why they say that we can't travel the speed of light is that when you reach the speed of light, your mass becomes infinite. Well the problem with our mass being infinite is that it takes infinite amount of energy to move infinite mass, and there is not infinite energy in the universe. So therefore we could not obtain the speed of light with a thrust powered ship of some sort, we would have to be formed into energy and then we could travel that fast.
Unfortunately if we could actually form ourselves into energy then we would have to figure out how to undo that process so that we are the some as we were at the starting point.
Joe



your argument is fatally flawed...first of all, the mass of light doesn't become tremendous as it reaches the speed of light...the speed at which light travels IS the speed of light, it doesn't "reach it". secondly, you're right that light is a combination of matter and energy...light is made up of photons and has properties of particles...but, do you know what infinite mass means? how can light have infinite mass? expand on that so i know what you mean...

do you think the universe is infinite? i think it is...so doesn't that mean there is also an infinite amount of energy in this universe?

also, you say that you need infinite energy to move infinite mass and that there isn't an infinite amount of energy in the universe...so how does light move if it has infinite mass? you're argument is very confusing and definitely not valid...

so...explain yourself...
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#8 AverageJoe

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 01:54 AM

wave-particle duality of matter, light simultaneously exhibits properties of both waves(energy) and particles(matter). The precise nature of light is one of the key questions of modern physics.
The theory of relativity states that the closer objects come to the speed of light, the more massive(more matter, maybe denser would be an more appropriate word) they become. A photon is matter, so therefore it becomes infinite.

Is the universe infinite, I'm not sure on that one(recent evidence has come to the conclusion that the universe is expanding so I'm kind of unbiased about that subject at this time) but in that case to go the speed of light you would have to convert all the matter in the universe to. So if you wanted to convert your mom into your fuel to go faster, you could travel the speed of light. laugh.gif

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#9 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 06:33 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 11 2007, 08:54 PM) View Post
So if you wanted to convert your mom into your fuel to go faster, you could travel the speed of light. laugh.gif


Great!!!! I would never have to buy gasoline again!!!!!!

#10 myncknm

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:12 AM

Okay, this discussion sucked so much that djbob sent me here to straighten things out. So here I am. Straightening.

Light has no mass. Massive objects gain relative mass as they approach the speed of light (relatively), with their relative mass approaching infinity as their speed approaches that of light. But that's all okay, since light is not massive. Evidence comes from its lack of inertia and gravitational field, since those are what define mass.

A photon is made of self-regenerating waves that are variations in the electromagnetic field. It's like the field that a magnet creates, except that it is very small. One of the waves that make up a photon is an electric wave, and the other is an magnetic wave. When the electric field reaches the vertex of its wave, it gets pulled back by the magnetic field, and vice-versa. Or something like that anyways. http://en.wikipedia....:Light-wave.png

Matter and energy are the same thing at fundamental levels. The difference isn't even well-defined in physics. Common usage of the word "matter" generally means things that have mass, or things that are tangible, or things that are made of atoms. Probably the distinction that would be most relevant to this discussion is that matter has mass.

As to Joe's idea about converting someone into light energy, sending them far away at the speed of light, then converting them back, I've got another idea. How about just finding out the exact composition of someone, sending that information far away through light signals, building an exact replica at the destination, and then killing the original? It pretty much achieves the same effect, but is easier to implement, and would cost less too!

Oh, and the idea of actually being able to achieve the speed of light given an infinite amount of energy in the universe doesn't really work. It would only get closer and closer to the speed of light, but never actually reach it. Infinity isn't really something that us humans can ever hope to achieve, y'know? Maybe there's an infinite amount of energy spread out over an infinite expanse of space, but an infinite amount of energy in a finite area (or is it volume?) isn't going to happen.


Ahhh crepes, that took a chunk out of my sleeping time.

#11 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:55 AM

I still think that in the future that mankind will be able to travel if not faster, at the speed of light. Never, and I mean Never, say never.

#12 Helions

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 11:25 AM

there was a thought experiment done in the past in regards to an infinite universe, and by universe, i mean all the heavenly bodies and the space surrounding it..i think it was done by Galileo, but i'd have to get back to you on this..

the thought experiment goes like this...let's say a spear is thrown towards the edges of the universe...if it keeps going, then space is infinite...if it hits a boundary, then that means there must be something beyond that boundary(a boundary must take up space), which also shows that space is inifinite...

interesting, no?
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#13 Quantum Media LLC

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:13 PM

very intresting

#14 AverageJoe

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 03:02 AM

Well if light doesn't have mass then how come it can't escape the gravitational pull of a black whole. why does the Earths gravitational affect its path.
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#15 Helions

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 06:17 AM

QUOTE(awsomejoe23 @ Mar 13 2007, 03:02 AM) View Post
Well if light doesn't have mass then how come it can't escape the gravitational pull of a black whole. why does the Earths gravitational affect its path.


it has to do with the curvature of space if i'm not mistaken...
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