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What Do You Think About Islam ?


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#16 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 02:07 PM

QUOTE (Hassan-The-Muslim @ Jun 30 2011, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Any more questions ? smile.gif


Yes... an you'r reply was very interestin... but aparently moderation will not allow my "uncivil" opinions on this issue to be discussed here.???
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#17 cl58

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 04:58 PM

You can share your opinions regardless of what they are, you just must do it in a respectable and civilized way. In essence, you cannot slander or make fun of anyone else's beliefs.
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#18 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (cl58 @ Jun 30 2011, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can share your opinions regardless of what they are, you just must do it in a respectable and civilized way. In essence, you cannot slander or make fun of anyone else's beliefs.


O... oK... an i have no intention of goin beyond espressin my opinions... an jus like i thank capital punishment is barbaric... whether its stonein people to death/the electric chare or leathal injection... ect... all are monsterous... an i also thank thers nuthin mor monsterous than a "God" who creates people in a defective way an then juges 'em to suffer for eternity for behavin the only way they can (defective)... its kinda like... breedin short legged dogs an then punishin 'em for not bein able to run faster than they can.!!!
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#19 Krydos

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Hassan-The-Muslim @ Jun 30 2011, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاء فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاء فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا وَإِن يَسْتَغِيثُوا يُغَاثُوا بِمَاء كَالْمُهْلِ يَشْوِي الْوُجُوهَ بِئْسَ الشَّرَابُ وَسَاءتْ مُرْتَفَقًا
Qur'an 18:29

وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ
Qur'an 51:56

I don't know anything about religion. I don't know if god exists or if he is the muslim god or the christian god or maybe even some crazy pagan god; if I meet him(or her or it) and still posses the capability to communicate with the rest of humanity I will do my best to let you all know exactly what he (or she or it) is all about.

Anyways, my only real input to this thread is I just wanted to say that the Arabic language and it's derivatives are the most beautiful written language in the world. I've often wished I could speak/write/read it. Maybe that should be my next goal in life.

#20 Brother Hassan

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:28 PM

QUOTE
Yes... an you'r reply was very interestin... but aparently moderation will not allow my "uncivil" opinions on this issue to be discussed here.???

Islam recognizies freedom of speech & I request the Mods to allow cluelusshusbund to say his mind. Before we continue could I please know your religious affiliation ? I'm guessing Atheist.
QUOTE
O... oK... an i have no intention of goin beyond espressin my opinions... an jus like i thank capital punishment is barbaric... whether its stonein people to death/the electric chare or leathal injection... ect... all are monsterous..

There is difference of opinion amongst Islamic scholars about the validity of stoning the adulterers. Some say that only people who commit anti-social crimes like rape should be stoned to death, others ( majority ) say that any married person who commits adultery should be stoned to death. But this punishment is valid only in an Islamic Society with Islamic laws. In such a society commiting sins is very difficult as the environment is Islamic ( no porn, skinny clothes e.t.c ).

As for its being Humane or not. This punishment is not only a part of Islamic law. Its a part of both the Jewish & Christian tradition ( If you want I can quote the bible ). Furthermore a vast majority of the world has punishments of this nature. For punishment to be given you need to have 4 witnesses which are very unlikely to be present in a case like adultery.

Another thing you have to notice is that by logic, your thinking it to be evil is of no value. Just think, if God the All Wise ordains a punishment, how then can you as a man with limited intellectual capacity challenge it ?

Furthermore, Islam is not a system of penal law. It is a complete system of life which is perfect in every sphere. The Prophet Muhammad ( may the peace & blessing of God be upon him ) spent the first 13 years of his life as a prophet preaching only faith. Islamic law when applied in an Islamic society brings such a sight as never seen before. The people during the time of the Prophet ( may the peace & blessing of God be upon him ) used to come to him & ask him to stone them to death so that they may receive punishment in this world instead of the hereafter. Yet such was his nature that he used to make excuses for them (due to compassion), yet they testified against themselves.
QUOTE
an i also thank thers nuthin mor monsterous than a "God" who creates people in a defective way an then juges 'em to suffer for eternity for behavin the only way they can (defective)... its kinda like... breedin short legged dogs an then punishin 'em for not bein able to run faster than they can.!!!

I completely agree with you
Praise be to God, who has not made Islam like this. In Islam we have been told that we are granted the freedom to chose which path we want to take. God the Almighty has created us with the ability to chose. No one died for my sins, I do good I go to heaven, I do bad I go to Hell.

Waiting for your reply & more questions
Brother Hassan
P.S Thanks for asking me about my religion.

QUOTE
I don't know anything about religion. I don't know if god exists or if he is the muslim god or the christian god or maybe even some crazy pagan god;

Think about it Krydos, can there be more than one God ? If not than can all religions except one be false ? No !
God is one. The same God of Jesus, the God of Moses, the God of Abraham, the God of Muhammad ( peace be upon them all ).
Every religion teaches the same thing, God is one ! He has revealed different prophets with the same message, yet there followers are the ones who have corrupted there religion.
QUOTE
if I meet him(or her or it) and still posses the capability to communicate with the rest of humanity I will do my best to let you all know exactly what he (or she or it) is all about.

Is it worth the risk ? Would it not be better to look into religion & recognize God before its too late ? Death will come, are you going to risk the events after it ?
QUOTE
Anyways, my only real input to this thread is I just wanted to say that the Arabic language and it's derivatives are the most beautiful written language in the world. I've often wished I could speak/write/read it. Maybe that should be my next goal in life.

If you learned Arabic I'm guessing 80% chances you would become Muslim. The Qur'an is a miracle of the Arabic language. It was the main miracle of Muhammad ( may the peace & blessing of God be upon him ) to the Arabs. He used to be an unlettered shepard, then suddenly he recited a book of such eloquence that till today not a single chapter of it has been mimicked in rhythm & style. Take a look at http://www.theinimitablequran.com.

#21 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE
We have been told that people who realize the truth & yet reject it due to there own desires are going to be punished by God smile.gif People who are sincere and good will be rewarded by Him smile.gif


Even tho they dont have beleifs in Gods... coud an atheist be considered good an sincere an receive the sam good rewards from God as those who "realize the truth".???

-------------------
To me... a jugmental creator/God doesnt make sinse... because us humans behave the way we was created to behave... ie... "flawed".!!!

QUOTE
Well, I can speak only for Islam smile.gif
Muslims believe that all Human beings have been granted freewill by Allah/God to chose what they want to do smile.gif


Because thers no evidence for it... "Free will" is jus anuther beleif i dont have.!!!

QUOTE
The creator created you & you should follow him smile.gif The choice is yours to make if you do good, you will be rewarded smile.gif If not ... then you will be punished smile.gif


Jus like i woudnt willingly follow parents (who "created" me) if they behaved like monsters... nether woud i willingly follow a "God" who behaved like a monster.!!!

QUOTE
Allah/God says in the Qur'an,

"for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces"


Yes... the Holey Bible also has monsterous punishments from "God".!!!

QUOTE
Furthermore, if the creator did not judge than that would bring equal the good & the bad smile.gif What greater evil could there be than to consider good & bad equal ?


"Evil" (as an entity) is jus anuther beleif i dont have... but i see it as monsterous that anyone (God or human) who woud do this:::

"We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces"

...ie... that particular horror is a perfect esample of "bad" bein called "good"... which begs the queston agan... "Why shoud people worship a "God"... much less a "God" who unnecessarly does such monsterous thangs.???


QUOTE
Think of it smile.gif If a murderer was not put in hell & treated the same way as a pious doctor who saves the lives of others, would it not be injustice ? Would it not be evil ?


I cant emagine a concept mor "evel" than the injustice of hell... which includes people bein tortured for havin rong beleifs... an no crime deserves torture... much less eternal torture.!!!

QUOTE
Also by calling a creator who is judgmental a monster, you are indirectly calling a huge number of people monsters smile.gif Does not every parent create ( though of course in a lesser degree than God ) ? Do parents not judge their children ?


In a lesser degree than "God"... many people do behave in monsterous ways... but "God" is the creator of misery... not humans.!!!

A simple person such as myself coud do a much beter job than "God"... for esample... if i had God powers... no child woud ever have to suffer rape or starvation... an no one woud ever suffer the horrors of a hell.!!!

Why does "God" deserve to be worshipped.???

QUOTE
We worship for it is indeed the purpose of our creation smile.gif


That does not answr the queston:::

Why does God "deserve" to be worshiped/loved.???


This post was to long so its in 2 parts.!!!
End of part 1

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#22 arfath khan

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:27 PM

Why does God "deserve" to be worshiped/loved.???

simple answer : He has created us, the whole of universe, He is our creator and we need to be obedient to our Creator.

you think this earth, all the planets, the Huge stars, the Milky way's the Galaxies came into existence without a Creator ? the most complex machine on earth is Human being, do you think such a complex machine came into existence without a creator ? even a leaf performs a complex process called photosynthesis converting the solar energy to starch, who made it all possible, There is one Creator the all Powerful, All Knowing. He has sent us here to have faith in him and do good deeds.
if your answer is evolution, that human beings evolved from unicellular organisms some millions of years ago, then its just a hypothesis, its not a fact, evolution is not a scientific fact, some hypothetical observation and assumptions of Charles Darwin. its absurd to think that human beings evolved from lower species or the whole creation is just a matter of co-incidence. let me explain :
tell me which place in the world has got both oil and sand available in plenty, Ok, Saudi Arabia, there are lots of oil reserves there and being desert there is sand also, one day while a friend of mine was walking through the deserts of saudi arabia, he found a brand new Cell phone half immersed in the sand, it was a brand new one, would you believe that the cell phone there was created by chance and co-incidence and evolved itself and it was not made by a cell-phone manufacturer. i can prove that the cell phone my friend found in the desert was a product of evolution, Since there is sand in the deserts some millions of years ago there might have been volcanic eruption, lightning, harmful gasses, the sand and rocks melted and formed the "Sillicon Chip" of the cell phone the oil present there slowly started to jell on the sillicon chip and after thousand of years it got transformed into a beautiful "cell phone", would you believe that, even if you tell a child as a bed time story like this, he will rubbish this out. We need to have Faith in our God, the ONE who sent all the Prophets (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Ishamel, Moses, Solomon, David, Jesus (peace be upon them all) and the last and final Messenger Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) to guide human beings.
Peace be on you.
regards
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#23 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

QUOTE (arfath khan @ Jul 4 2011, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...you think this earth, all the planets, the Huge stars, the Milky way's the Galaxies came into existence without a Creator ?


Thers lots of diferent beleifs about how everthang cam into existence but i jus admit that i do not know.!!!

QUOTE
We need to have Faith in our God, the ONE who sent all the Prophets (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Ishamel, Moses, Solomon, David, Jesus (peace be upon them all) and the last and final Messenger Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) to guide human beings.
Peace be on you.
regards


I dont share you'r beleifs... i even thank humans evolved... so if somone like me dont change ther ways are they doomed to hell.???

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#24 arfath khan

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:46 PM

let me provide you with another example :
A man sat in the middle of a rail track, a kid who was passing by asked him to get off from the railway track as there will be a train coming on the very track he is sitting in about 2 mins or so. the man asks the kid : "what is a rail". The kid can't believe what the man had just said to him, the kid replies : "you don't know what a Rail is ?".
The man Asks : "NO! is it bigger than a ant?".
Now the kid is awe struck :" sir! a rail is very big very big thing, its huge, its going to come now on this track in a few minutes".
The Man goes on and says "is the thing what you call as Rail Bigger than a Dog". The Kid replies: "its a huge machine, that runs the track on which you are sitting". The man Replies to the Kid " i don't believe you".
The Kid says"will you believe me, if you feel its force or hear its sound". just then the rail track starts trembling.
the Kid Says "see its force, the whole track is trembling".
The man replies " its an earth quake, there is nothing called a Rail, you are just trying to fool me".
just then the loud horn or whistle of the train is heard, the Kid says : "did you hear that, look at that sound, won't you still believe me"
The Man replies : "its an Ice Cream guy, pressing the horn calling kids to buy ICE creams and candies".
The Kid finally says :" i have done everything possible to make you believe that there is a rail and its going to come on this railroad and if you don't get out of its way, it will kill you. but you aren't believing me, even though you know the truth, now its your chioce get out of the track or face the consequences, my job was to deliver the message, if you don't want to heed, you will pay the price".
_____________________I hope everything is clear now.

You see God as cruel or some thing like that, NO! But He is the Merciful One, This life is a test for the hereafter it is mentioned in The Quran that “its ALLAH who has Created death and life to test which of you are Good in Deeds” (Chapter-67), so if you are handicap or with some other problem, God has put you to test and your reward will be much higher if you put faith in him, You will get more reward than those who are born normal, because the level of test in which God put you is different than that of others, so the reward will be different n better than others.
By the way brother Hassan had told about the Quran being Miracle, it contains more than 1000 verses which deal with science, about the creation of universe, Astronomy, Embryology,Oceanology, Physiology, Hydrology etc., Please do read the Quran, if God Wills it will guide you.

Regards
Arfath
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#25 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:16 PM

I dont share you'r beleifs... i even thank humans evolved... so if somone like me dont change ther ways are they doomed to hell.???

QUOTE (arfath khan @ Jul 5 2011, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"my job was to deliver the message, if you don't want to heed, you will pay the price".
_____________________I hope everything is clear now.


Yes... you beleive im bound for hell... but lots of Christans beleive you'r bound for hell... an jus like me... i dout you'r worryed about other peoples religous beleifs.

QUOTE
You see God as cruel or some thing like that, NO! But He is the Merciful One, This life is a test for the hereafter it is mentioned in The Quran that “its ALLAH who has Created death and life to test which of you are Good in Deeds”


An we have no free will to refuse to take part in this test... a test designed by God so that mos people will fale an be tortured for eternity.!!!

This all seems monsterous to me... not Merciful.!!!

QUOTE
Please do read the Quran, if God Wills it will guide you.

Regards
Arfath


Well of course... if "God" wills it... i will read the Quran.!!!

Part 2

jus like i thank capital punishment is barbaric... whether its stonein people to death/the electric chare or leathal injection... ect... all are monsterous... an i also thank thers nuthin mor monsterous than a "God" who creates people in a defective way an then juges 'em to suffer for eternity for behavin the only way they can (defective)... its kinda like... breedin short legged dogs an then punishin 'em for not bein able to run faster than they can.!!!

QUOTE (Hassan-The-Muslim)
Before we continue could I please know your religious affiliation ? I'm guessing Atheist.


Atheist/agnostic... i dont have beleifs that "Gods" exist... but i dont "know" that they dont exist.!!!
---------------------

jus like i thank capital punishment is barbaric... whether its stonein people to death/the electric chare or leathal injection... ect... all are monsterous..

QUOTE
...your thinking it to be evil is of no value. Just think, if God the All Wise ordains a punishment, how then can you as a man with limited intellectual capacity challenge it ?


It doesnt necessarly follow that a "God" who is "All Wise" wont behave like a monster.!!!
--------------

an i also thank thers nuthin mor monsterous than a "God" who creates people in a defective way an then juges 'em to suffer for eternity for behavin the only way they can (defective)... its kinda like... breedin short legged dogs an then punishin 'em for not bein able to run faster than they can.!!!

QUOTE
I completely agree with you
Praise be to God, who has not made Islam like this.
In Islam we have been told that we are granted the freedom to chose which path we want to take. God the Almighty has created us with the ability to chose. No one died for my sins, I do good I go to heaven, I do bad I go to Hell.


So... are people borned in America to Christan parents jus as likely to make it to heaven as people borned in Muslim countrys to parents wit Muslim beleifs.???

QUOTE
Waiting for your reply & more questions
Brother Hassan
P.S Thanks for asking me about my religion.


You'r welcom... its interestin to hear you'r beleifs.!!!
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#26 Brother Hassan

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 12:47 PM

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

This thread is so interesting smile.gif I hope you all are enjoying it as much as I am smile.gif Brother cluelusshusbund I'll try my best to answer all your questions smile.gif But first you have to decide that if I can convince you that Islam is the truth & that my answers have a ringing of truth in them than you will accept Islam smile.gif Since you are intellectually convinced against a belief in God, I will if God willing, convince you otherwise smile.gif

Human beings were not created flawed smile.gif At least Islam does not believe that smile.gif I've already quotes verses from the Nobel Qur'an that tell you that free will is granted to Humans smile.gif

QUOTE
Even tho they dont have beleifs in Gods... coud an atheist be considered good an sincere an receive the sam good rewards from God as those who "realize the truth".???

God only punishes people who received His message yet chose to reject it. If you are convinced that Islam is from God & you received its message, yet out of pride & arrogance do not accept it, you will be punished smile.gif Such is the justice of the Almighty that he says in the Qur'an,
مَّنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا وَلاَ تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُول
Qur'an 17:15

Abdullah Yusuf Ali Translation - Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning).

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall Translation - Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until We have sent a messenger.

Sahih International Translation - Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.



QUOTE
Because thers no evidence for it... "Free will" is jus anuther beleif i dont have.!!!

The belief in freewill is essential for goodness & betterment is a society smile.gif Without it no one could be blamed smile.gif
For example, If i was to enter your house & rob you blind. Then I was to kill your relatives & the police came smile.gif If you were to take me to court I could say that I had no freewill & I was destined for it smile.gif If you do not believe in freewill than by asking punishment for me you would be acting as a hypocrite smile.gif Freewill is a reality smile.gif I am moving my fingers on my laptop & you are reading my article smile.gif You are choosing to do it smile.gif To reject something which you feel is foolishness smile.gif

QUOTE
Yes... the Holey Bible also has monsterous punishments from "God".!!!

Punishments for the bad only smile.gif The universality for punishment of evil is itself proof for its existence smile.gif

QUOTE
"Evil" (as an entity) is jus anuther beleif i dont have... but i see it as monsterous that anyone (God or human) who woud do this:::

"We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces"

...ie... that particular horror is a perfect esample of "bad" bein called "good"... which begs the queston agan... "Why shoud people worship a "God"... much less a "God" who unnecessarly does such monsterous thangs.???

Evil is an entity & a quality smile.gif Though nothing is "purely" evil smile.gif If there is nothing evil that you have no problem with the murder of hundreds of innocents ? Tell me have you ever lost a loved one by the hand of another ? If you did you would know that Hell is not evil smile.gif

The reason why there is evil and injustice in this world is that some of us choose them. We are capable of choosing goodness or evil. The choice of evil inevitably causes injustice and suffering.

Nothing happens, however, without God's permission. God allows suffering to happen for a variety of reasons that are consistent with His comprehensive knowledge and fairness. Some suffering is a test of faith, other suffering is a punishment of sin. The suffering of others is a reminder to us of our own vulnerabilities and to be thankful to God for sparing us. The best way to express thanks to God is to alleviate suffering, correct injustice and fight evil.

QUOTE
I cant emagine a concept mor "evel" than the injustice of hell... which includes people bein tortured for havin rong beleifs... an no crime deserves torture... much less eternal torture.!!!

People are not punished for believing in something which they consider the truth. People are punished because they have rejected faith even though they were convinced that it is true.


QUOTE
In a lesser degree than "God"... many people do behave in monsterous ways... but "God" is the creator of misery... not humans.!!!

A simple person such as myself coud do a much beter job than "God"... for esample... if i had God powers... no child woud ever have to suffer rape or starvation... an no one woud ever suffer the horrors of a hell.!!!

Ahhhh ... God is not the creator of evil. God is the creator of man & of freewill. Evil exists because of our misuse of our freewill. For example rape occurs because people misuse the freewill they were granted with by God. Starvation occurs because people do not give the poor due to the misuse of their freewill.
Here is a very interesting story about evil.
QUOTE
"Professing to be wise, they became fools . . .. "
"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with God."
The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before
his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.
"You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"
"Yes, sir."
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Koran says I'm not always so good."
The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE KORAN!" He
considers for a
moment.
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person
over here and you can
cure him. You can do it. Would you help them?
"Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed
person if you
could...
in fact most of us would if we could... but God doesn't.

[No answer.]

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who
died of cancer even
though he
prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good?
Hmmm?
Can you answer that one?"

[No answer]
The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can
you?"
He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to
give the student time to
relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the
new ones.
"Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?"
"Er... Yes."
"Is Satan good?"
"No."
"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.
"From... God..."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The
elderly man runs his bony
fingers
through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking,
student audience.
"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this
semester, ladies and
gentlemen."
He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there
evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make
everything?"
"Yes."
"Who created evil?

[No answer]

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All the
terrible things - do they exist in this world? "
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."
"Who created them? "

[No answer]

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO
CREATED THEM? TELL ME,
PLEASE!
"The professor closes in for the kill and climbs
into the Muslim's face.
In a still small voice: "God created all evil,
didn't He, son?"

[No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced
gaze and fails.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front
of the classroom like an
aging panther.
The class is mesmerized.
"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is
good if He created all
evil throughout time?"
The professor swishes his arms around to encompass
the wickedness of the
world.
"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all
the torture, all the death
and ugliness and all the suffering created by this
good God is all over the
world, isn't it, young man?"

[No answer]

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"
Pause.
"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's
face again and
whispers, "Is God good?"

[No answer]

"Do you believe in God, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes,
professor. I do." The old
man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have
five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have
you? "
"Yes, of course sir, I do have five senses".

Then, slowly raising his voice, the professor continues:
"Have you ever seen your God?"
"No, sir. I've never seen Him."
"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"
"No, sir. I have not."
"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or
smelt your God...
in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God
whatsoever?"

[No answer]

"Answer me, please."
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"
"No, sir."
"Yet you still believe in him?"
"...yes..."
"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at
the underling.
"According to the rules of empirical, testable,
demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say
to that, son?
Where is your God now?"

[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."
The Muslim sits...Defeated.

Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I
address the class?"
The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim
in the vanguard!
Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to
the gathering."
The
Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting
points you are making, sir.
Now I've got a question for you. Is there such
thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's
heat."
"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room
suddenly goes very cold.
The second Muslim continues. "You can have lots of
heat, even more heat,
super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or
no heat but we don't
have anything called 'cold'.

We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as
cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than
458 - You see, sir, cold
is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure
cold. Heat we can measure in
thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not
the opposite of heat, sir,
just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the
classroom.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if
it isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"
"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something,
it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light,
bright light, flashing
light but if you have no light constantly you have
nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to
define the word. In
reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be
able to make darkness
darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a
jar of darker
darkness, professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young
effrontery before
him.
This will indeed be a good semester. "Would
you mind telling us what
your point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical
premise is flawed to
start with and so your conclusion must be in
error...."
The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare
you...!""
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?" >

The class is all ears.
"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor
makes an admirable effort
to regain control. Suddenly he is affability
itself. He waves his
hand to silence the class, for the student to
continue.
"You are working on the premise of duality," the
Muslim explains. "That for
example there is life and then there's death; a good
God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something
finite, something we can
measure.
Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses
electricity and
magnetism but has never seen, much less fully
understood them. To view
death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of
the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not
the opposite of life,
merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the
desk of a neighbor who
has been reading it. "Here is one of the most
disgusting tabloids this
country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as
immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely
the absence of
morality.
Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is
the absence of justice.
Is there such a thing as evil?" The Muslim pauses.
"Isn't evil the absence
of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color.
He is so angry
he is temporarily speechless.
The Muslim continues. "If there is evil in the
world, professor, and we all
agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be
accomplishing a work
through the agency of evil. What is that work, God
is accomplishing? The
Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will,
of our own free will,
choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical
scientist, I don't vie this
matter as having anything to do with any choice; as
a realist, I absolutely
do not recognize the concept of God or any other
theological factor as
being part of the world equation because God is not
observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's
moral code in this world is
probably one of the most observable phenomena
going," the Muslim replies.
"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it
every week! Tell me,
professor. Do you teach your students that they
evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary
process, young man,
yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes,
sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth
and gives his student a
silent, stony stare.
"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the
process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an
on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a
scientist, but a
priest?"
"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our
philosophical discussion.
Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.
"So you don't accept
God's moral code to do what is righteous?"
"I believe in what is - that's science!"
"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a
grin.
"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of
observed phenomena.
Science too is a premise which is flawed..."
"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the
professor splutters.
The class is in uproar.

The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has
subsided.
"To continue the point you were making earlier to
the other student, may I
give you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent.

The Muslim looks around the room. "Is there anyone
in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?". The class breaks
out in laughter.
The Muslim points towards his elderly,
crumbling tutor.
"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the
professor's brain...,
felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the
professor's brain?".
No one appears to have done so.

The Muslim shakes his head sadly.
"It appears no-one here has had any sensory
perception of the professor's
brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of
empirical,
stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE
that the professor has no brain."

The class is in chaos.

The Muslim sits... Because that is what a chair is for.


Thus it is the lack of good ( God's religion ) that causes evil.

QUOTE
Why does "God" deserve to be worshipped.???

In Islam worship is not a set of rituals. Ibadah ( Arabic for worship ) means to submit to God willingly & follow his way in every matter willingly. You also follow God's way. When you eat you follow his will but unwillingly. There are numerous reasons why God needs to be worshiped. The best would be to get a copy of the Qur'an & read yourself. To give a few, He is the All-Wise & thus his way is the wisest. His way is the way of good & who does not want to be good. Not following His way will give you hell.

QUOTE
Thers lots of diferent beleifs about how everthang cam into existence but i jus admit that i do not know.!!!

Only 2.5 % of the worlds population is atheist. God made the universe come into existence in the form of the Big Bang ( the Qur'an mentioned the Big Bang almost 1400 years ago ).

QUOTE
I dont share you'r beleifs... i even thank humans evolved... so if somone like me dont change ther ways are they doomed to hell.???

Even if Humans evolved ( Difference of opinion among Muslims Scholars ), who did it ? Who instated the principal of natural selection ? Who made the laws of Physics come into existence ? God did it ! If you believe my beliefs to be right & yet cover the truth due to arrogance, you wil be doomed to hell.


#27 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE (arfath khan)
Brother cluelusshusbund I'll try my best to answer all your questions smile.gif But first you have to decide that if I can convince you that Islam is the truth & that my answers have a ringing of truth in them than you will accept Islam smile.gif


Yes... if you convience me that "Islam is the truth" i will accept "Islam".!!!

But first... confirm the truth of the statments below:::

If i beleive Islamic beleifs about God but reject those belleifs i will be punished in hell.!!!

If i sincerely dont beleive Islamic beleifs about God... but i am otherwize a good person who does good deeds... i will not be punished in hell.!!!
New Guess Game now in progress








#28 Brother Hassan

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE
Yes... if you convience me that "Islam is the truth" i will accept "Islam".!!!

If you are sincere for the truth then Allah will guide you smile.gif Please get a copy of the Qur'an if you can & just read ! Read the book & if you are sincere for the truth you will be guided smile.gif
QUOTE
But first... confirm the truth of the statments below:::

If i beleive Islamic beleifs about God but reject those belleifs i will be punished in hell.!!!

If i sincerely dont beleive Islamic beleifs about God... but i am otherwize a good person who does good deeds... i will not be punished in hell.!!!

Ahhh ... A very interesting question smile.gif
As Muslims we cannot judge weather a person will go to hell or heaven smile.gif Judgment belongs only to Allah smile.gif Allah is the Most Just & will never commit injustice smile.gif He himself says in the Qur'an,

يَوْمَئِذٍ يَصْدُرُ النَّاسُ أَشْتَاتًا لِّيُرَوْا أَعْمَالَهُمْ
فَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ خَيْرًا يَرَهُ
وَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ شَرًّا يَرَهُ
Qur'an 99:6-8

Abdullah Yusuf Ali Translation - On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the deeds that they (had done). Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.

Sahih International Translation - That Day, the people will depart separated [into categories] to be shown [the result of] their deeds. So whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it, And whoever does an atom’s weight of evil will see it.


Again He says,

إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَظْلِمُ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ وَإِن تَكُ حَسَنَةً يُضَاعِفْهَا وَيُؤْتِ مِن لَّدُنْهُ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا
Qur'an 4:40

Abdullah Yusuf Ali Translation - Allah is never unjust in the least degree: If there is any good (done), He doubleth it, and giveth from His own presence a great reward.

Sahih International Translation - Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, [even] as much as an atom's weight; while if there is a good deed, He multiplies it and gives from Himself a great reward.


It is impossible that a person sincere in finding the truth will not accept Islam ( Islam means submission to the will of the One true Creator ) if he is aware of its teachings. But most people in the west ( like yourself I believe ) are unaware of the message of Islam smile.gif For them Allah has said in his final revelation,

مَّنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّمَا يَضِلُّ عَلَيْهَا وَلاَ تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُول
Qur'an 17:15

Abdullah Yusuf Ali Translation - Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning).

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall Translation - Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until We have sent a messenger.

Sahih International Translation - Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.


Thus if anyone is unaware of the message of Islam, then they will be judged specially by Allah on the day of judgment smile.gif
The Arabic term used in the Qur'an for "unbeliever" or "disbeliever" is Kafir (Arabic: كافر ). The word Kafir comes from the root word "kafara" which means "he hid (something)" and "he covered (something)" or "He hid (something) by covering it up." As Muslims, we believe that Islam is the natural religion of Human Beings smile.gif Thus those who reject Islam after understanding its message are covering up & rejecting the natural truth. Kafir means in Islamic terminology a person who "hides or covers [viz., the truth]".

In conclusion, Islam is completely fair. People who are unaware of the truth of Islam will be judged specially by Allah. People who reject Islam & cover up the natural truth will be punished smile.gif Your duty is to be sincere for the truth & ask Allah to guide you smile.gif

Could you please tell me what other problems that you have about Islam ?

#29 Kenny09

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:36 AM

DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong. You are free to believe anything you want to believe.


I think you are all being silly. smile.gif After you read this you will think this theory is crazy or ridiculous. Remember how that feels because that's how I feel when someone starts trying to prove their religion is right and "God" will save them.

I'm Atheist or Agnostic as well. I think it would be more likely that religion on Earth was created by aliens to help our society evolve.

I know, most people think it is impossible for other intelligent life to exist in an infinite universe. If you put that fact aside and think about our history and the history of religion you might change your mind. For more detailed information, you should watch the History Channel documentary called "Ancient Aliens".

Certain authors hypothesize that intelligent extraterrestrial beings called ancient astronauts or ancient aliens have visited Earth, and this contact is connected with the origins or development of human cultures, technologies, and religions. A common variant of the idea include proposals that deities from most, if not all, religions are actually extraterrestrials, and their technologies were taken as evidence of their divine status. (taken from Wikipedia, I couldn't have said it better myself)

I'll provide some examples.

In the Biblical Old Testament, chapter 1 of the Book of Ezekiel recounts a vision in which Ezekiel sees "an immense cloud" that contains fire and emits lightning and "brilliant light". It continues: "The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures". These creatures are described as winged and humanoid, they "sped back and forth like flashes of lightning" and "fire moved back and forth among the creatures". The passage goes on to describe four shiny objects, each appearing "like a wheel intersecting a wheel". These objects could fly and they moved with the creatures: "When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose".

In chapter 4 of Chariots of the Gods, entitled “Was God an Astronaut?”, von Däniken suggests that Ezekiel had seen a spaceship or spaceships. The History Channel documentary Ancient Aliens, discusses this in more detail.

Some ancient astronaut proponents such as Von Daniken and Barry Downing believe that the concept of hell in the Bible could be a real description of the planet Venus brought to earth by extraterrestrials showing photos of the hot surface on Venus to humans. I can just picture (in my head) an alien threatening to send humans to Venus if they don't work hard or worship the right God(s). This would instill fear into the general population and get the desired results. (Or maybe I watch too many Sci-fi movies/TV shows.

Archaeologist have found sophisticated pre-Incan sculptures made in the shapes very similar to that of airplanes, jets, helicopters and space shuttles. These small gold figurines are approximately two inches in length and estimated to date between 500 and 800 BC. In 1997 researchers built scaled up models of these artifacts to test their flight capabilities. The exact specifications were scaled up and made of materials used for flight of small radio controlled craft. The only addition was a small engine and propeller. The scaled up versions of the ancient aircraft flew remarkably well performing loops, rolls, turns, as well as take off and landing under the radio remote control.



In this image one is able to depict the clear shapes of what seem to be an airplane dropping some kind of bomb, package, or object and to the upper left the figure of what seems like a modern day helicopter.



Even more controversial than the model airplane are the enigmatic carvings found in the temple of Abydos, Egypt by Dr. Ruth Hover. Hover photographed a wall panel which had been revealed when a newer overlaying panel crumbled and fell off. The older panel beneath contained embossed images that resemble modern aircraft as seen in profile.

Ancient paintings from Val Camonica, Italy are believed to depict forgotten deities; ancient astronaut proponents claim these pictures resemble modern day astronauts despite being painted ca. 10,000 BC.



#30 cluelusshusbund

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:48 AM

QUOTE
Kenny09
After you read this you will think this theory is crazy or ridiculous. Remember how that feels because that's how I feel when someone starts trying to prove their religion is right and "God" will save them.

I think it would be more likely that religion on Earth was created by aliens to help our society evolve.


Do you see it as helpful that our society beleives "crazy/ridiculous" thangs.???


New Guess Game now in progress











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