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The rational proof for the existence of the Creator


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  • 3 weeks later...
Comments anyone ?

 

Who created the Creator? You say everything is limited and must rely on something else that is also limited. Therefor, shouldn't someone or something have created the Creator?

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Comments anyone ?

 

Who created the Creator? You say everything is limited and must rely on something else that is also limited. Therefor, shouldn't someone or something have created the Creator?

Finally a reply <_<

Well, then if the Creator was to have a creator than creation itself would be an impossibility :) Since the chain would be never ending. The Creator is by nature unlimited & eternal, thus He created :)

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Comments anyone ?

 

Who created the Creator? You say everything is limited and must rely on something else that is also limited. Therefor, shouldn't someone or something have created the Creator?

 

If you don't believe in a creator because of the question, "Who created the Creator?". Then you must believe in evolution. Therefore you must ask yourself these questions:

 

Who or what started evolution?

 

If your answer might be, The Big Bang.

 

Then who or what started the Big Bang?

 

etc, ect, ect. :)

 

I myself believe in God who has always existed. :)

 

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1. The reason for something new to come to being, is some kind of mutation. An anomaly. No infinite being is necessary to do something like that.

 

2. Even if there is an ultimate being, how do you know it is the one you call a god. Why does it have to be God, Allah, or some other divine being. Why can't it be a flying spaghetti monster? Why doesn't it show itself even though so many people pray for it? "The Creator" and your "God" don't necessarily have to be the same.

 

---Space for future atheistic jokes---

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If you don't believe in a creator because of the question, "Who created the Creator?". Then you must believe in evolution. Therefore you must ask yourself these questions:

 

Who or what started evolution?

 

If your answer might be, The Big Bang.

 

Then who or what started the Big Bang?

 

etc, ect, ect.

 

I myself believe in God who has always existed.

Exactly :)

Who is it that controls the laws of Physics ? Who makes the Sun rise ? Who created & maintains gravity ?

Without an Eternal creator, existence is an impossibility :)

1. The reason for something new to come to being, is some kind of mutation. An anomaly. No infinite being is necessary to do something like that.

What makes that anomaly come into existence ? Who brings about change ? Does the universe run by itself ? A ball does not reach a goal without a kick, how than can such a great universe function without someone running it ?

Even if there is an ultimate being, how do you know it is the one you call a god. Why does it have to be God, Allah, or some other divine being. Why can't it be a flying spaghetti monster? Why doesn't it show itself even though so many people pray for it? "The Creator" and your "God" don't necessarily have to be the same.

Because the Creator told us :) He sent his message to mankind, to offer them guidance :) My religion gives me proof for its authenticity, which in turn confirms my belief that it is from the Creator.

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Well, then if the Creator was to have a creator than creation itself would be an impossibility smile.gif Since the chain would be never ending. The Creator is by nature unlimited & eternal, thus He created smile.gif

 

That's why i stopped to think about god. But I know there is god(power) above us.

 

No need to think whether there is god or not.

Praying is good thing to be a man.

Quran, Bhagavat geetha, Bible or anything teaches same things.

Just follow any one, You will become a man.

 

 

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That's why i stopped to think about god. But I know there is god(power) above us.

 

No need to think whether there is god or not.

Thats an ignorant attitude. To not think is to be ignorant. God must either exist or not exist & without making a decision about his existence, no progress can be made in understanding reality.

Praying is good thing to be a man.

Quran, Bhagavat geetha, Bible or anything teaches same things.

Just follow any one, You will become a man.

The fundamental question is not weather the books teach different things but rather which book does God want us to follow. Praying is not important it is praying as God wants us to pray. Without studying religion & God, our existence is one of ignorance :)

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Guest Geoff

Well, both science and religion both tell that their is a creator (religion: God, Allah, etc..; science: The big bang, time supposedly did not even exist before), so I'm gambling that there is indeed a "creator," even if the creator is not still here, and/or not conscious.

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God is all about science and contrary to popular belief the true God of the bible is not looking for blind faith. He wants us to know what we believe in. He wants us to search him out and to connect with him. If you'll search him out and earnestly try to understand him, you WILL find him. :)

 

 

 

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God is all about science and contrary to popular belief the true God of the bible is not looking for blind faith. He wants us to know what we believe in. He wants us to search him out and to connect with him. If you'll search him out and earnestly try to understand him, you WILL find him. :)

Agreed :)

Well, both science and religion both tell that their is a creator (religion: God, Allah, etc..; science: The big bang, time supposedly did not even exist before), so I'm gambling that there is indeed a "creator," even if the creator is not still here, and/or not conscious.

Just as the big bang proves the existence of the Creator, the laws of physics prove the conscious presence of a Creator. How is it that something that does not live like gravity, exists and functions ? Nature is testament to Gods existence :)

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Hey there,

Just presenting another opinion. I am of the scientific stance, but I'd like to think that these are valid points, or at least, fodder for discussion...

 

...all of these are definable and quantifiable hence we would term these things limited.

I know I'm making a small and arbitrary point, but there is a difference between 'quantifiable' and 'limited'. Just because something can be counted does not mean there is only a certain amount to count.

As I say, not an important point. :mellow:

 

The concept (for want of a better word) of God or any god/deity/supreme power/etc is only a function of faith, or belief in said god. Faith is very difficult to quantify, as it does not provide anything other than a feeling of wellbeing, companionship or guidance and is almost entirely self-sustaining. Most people have a faith in a situation where answers are not readily available, and this faith can (often vaguely, but almost always satisfyingly) explain or give reason to the nature of a given circumstance.

 

At least, this is the modern faith, where science and religion are often at loggerheads. As a result, the above argument is constantly wheeled out and whored to suit anybody's narrow scientific view. This is wrong - the foundation of the scientific method is to observe with an open mind, without prejudice or predilection (I should point out that I am of the scientific stance, but am outlining this anyway).

 

There have been a few posts both ways, regarding the ubiquitous 'impossible infinite chain' argument, in an effort to both prove and disprove the existence of a god and of the big bang. Unfortunately, it is not conclusive in either case: if this first instant - for whichever reason - initiated the universe, then by definition it also marks the beginning of time, which is a finite and impassable boundary. At least, with our technology and wisdom.

 

This leads to another point. If we do, somehow, cross the threshold of time, will the findings make a difference? Even if we found out the cause of the birth of the universe, how do we understand whether or not it was determined by a Creator? All we would find is the actual physical incident. Let me clarify with a simple analogy: if we stamp on an anthill, the ants know that the anthill was flattened by a large object coming from above, the impact of which caused it's collapse. They will not understand that we meant to do it, only that it happened.

 

A parting shot - if a god is a function of belief, does the god still 'exist' if nobody believes?

 

TL;DR -> Does it really matter?

 

An interesting thought?

 

The RT60 Calculator Guy.

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Guest Geoff
A parting shot - if a god is a function of belief, does the god still 'exist' if nobody believes?

 

Does a falling tree make a sound if no one hears it? Of course it does. The sound is still made because the air particles still reverberate. Same concept applies.

 

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A parting shot - if a god is a function of belief, does the god still 'exist' if nobody believes?

 

Does a falling tree make a sound if no one hears it? Of course it does. The sound is still made because the air particles still reverberate. Same concept applies.

 

A falling tree has a physical (thus quantifiable?) effect on it's surroundings. What physical, demonstrable effect does a god have?

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